I have been running FWG for a while and primarily benefit from Ad Block and DNS over HTTPS. I have set up SmartQueue some. What would be the benefits of using a VPN service such as Mullvad or Proton? It would hide traffic from my ISP but my understanding is most tracking these days is done by pattern matching of browsers. Someone in the know said every user gets a unique advertising ID and that people are fooling themselves to think they are avoiding tracking (by the sites they go to running the tracking and advertising services).
The VPN can interfere with some things (like streaming and financial sites) and could be a performance hit.
How should I assess the need for a 3rd party VPN?
Watching soccer from European league in the us.
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A VPN hides your internet activity from your Internet Service Provider (ISP). This can be particularly important if you have concerns about your ISP logging your browsing history or selling your data. From personal experience I can tell you this is annoying. My ISP was sending me targeted mail about things I was doing. VPN Put a stop to that immediately.
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While it’s true that many trackers use sophisticated methods like browser fingerprinting, a VPN adds an additional layer of privacy by masking your IP address, making it harder to link your online activities to your real identity.
For me VPN has offer valuable privacy and security benefits, but it is not a silver bullet for all tracking methods previously mentioned. Combining a VPN with other privacy tools usually built into modern privacy focused browsers, enabling security features, occasionally clearing cookies, and being mindful of the information you share online, can provide some defense against tracking.
Turn on ad blocking, profiles in ur browser,etc.
The 3rd Party VPN on the Firewalla can be useful for accessing resources in other regions that are inaccessible to your region.
I wouldn’t connect any device to public WiFi without a VPN. So if you purchase one, you’ll have that capability. This is much more of a concern than your ISP seeing your traffic.
Couple of things. Setup select devices to always be connected when downloading and sharing Linux iso files.
My favorite is to have my guest network on vpn. If it’s in the same region this truly helps keep data collectors guessing.
My opinion is they provide very little. They can help secure network traffic on unprotected WiFi, but 99% of traffic is encrypted HTTPS anyway, so if really only helps with the remaining 1% which is mostly DNS queries unless you have DoH enabled.
They can also provide an IP in another country, but there are very limited circumstances where this would be useful to someone living in a America or the EU.
When it comes to privacy/tracking, the IP matters very little when there are 200 other metrics that can be used to track you such as browser fingerprint, cookies, etc.
Most people don’t really need a FW tbh. If you live at home and work in or near your home, you aren’t the demographic that would need to use one. I travel a lot for work, and live away from home a lot. I got so tired of internet service and locations causing massive hiccups. I think the average person uses it to bypass site specific websites, but the actual benefits are the fact that so many sites get confused when you dial in from multiple areas. I have all my devices use vpn when not on cellular. Not only does it tunnel things back to my home, I also get the added benefit of adding a little more protection while traveling. That is the real reason I use one.
I don’t think this subreddit is a good explanation on what VPN’s are for and not.
There is many pro’s and cons to them and it’s mostly dependent on what it is you’re trying to do.
But also saying they don’t do anything is asinine. If they were. Then nobody would use them. Lol
VPNs r a big deal; So much so that many countries go to great lengths to block them from their citizens. This should be a staple config as part of any home network setup. Especially if u r a techie or have intermediate IT know how, it should be no excuse these days.
Surveillance and privacy issues should be a big security concerns for all but unfortunately it doesn’t get the appreciation it deserves.
Saying that it’s optional or not needed is misleading and can send many users who come here for insights down the wrong path.
If u can setup VPN then do it. Period. it’s so cheap it’s a costs that’s worth the benefits it provides. And with firewalla u can create rules for any sites that want to act a fool just because u r on VPN.
Agreed. For advertising, you need a whole lot more than a VPN as your browser is a mesh sack when it comes to keeping your activities private. It allows me to use my home as an origination point and allows me into my home network easily. I also use it for watching shows like others, but it has the benefit of using all the protection you and your internet provider have in place already.
^^ This ^^ Check out a recent Network Chuck video where he describes different way people can be hacked on public WiFi
For VPN client, I like to route certain websites through European VPN with the assumption that/hope that stronger privacy laws mean less tracking. At a minimum, my IP address being shared with thousands of others grants additional anonymity.
Agreed that there are too many other ways to track a person, but every little change will help a bit. Changing IP address is a pretty low-effort adjustment.
Most people don’t need a FW? Did u mean VPN?
These are exactly the audience malicious folks love. It makes it so easy to do what they need to do. No defenses, no detection, everything open?
My perspective is that they were of more use 5 to 10 years ago but less useful today, trade offs as you say.
To me this is IS a good sub for the question as the users of FWalla products are educated on personal security and privacy yet not so dedicated that they have rolled their own security.
Serious question, who do you think it protects against— tech companies? Governments? Your ISP? I think all of their techniques have surpassed VPNs, that is my inquiry.
Yeah, my point is that the marketing gimmick of paying several dollars a month for a VPN to be “anonymous” is a falsehood. It’s just a way to trick folks who don’t know any better into spending money on stuff.
Kind of like antivirus these days. Windows Defender is free, included in Windows, and it’s one of the best products on the market, yet older folks still pay for antivirus every year.
The only practical reasons I can think to have a paid VPN are:
- To download things illegally
- To access streaming services with a US IP while you’re out of the country. Most streaming services are wise to this, though, so a residential proxy like IPRoyal is a better choice than VPN
- To do illegal hacking activity
- Extra layer of protection between you and Tor entry node for accessing the dark web
- To evade censorship in countries like China
The majority of users aren’t doing any of these things. They keep the bills paid for the VPN providers, which is great for those who actually need VPN. However, most are not getting the “anonymity” that they’re paying for because they don’t have their computer set up for anonymity.
These are exactly the audience malicious folks love. It makes it so easy to do what they need to do. No defenses, no detection, everything open?
this is why we have our devices now doing more of the privacy stuff to help average people by default. This is not a guaranteed prevention method. It is not going to be perfect. It does stop the average “bad thing that COULD (but likely wont) happen” that really scares people in stories about getting data hacked by an malciious person on the same public Starbucks wifi back in 2014 by finding your MAC address, realizing who it is and seeing theres an open way into your computer or phone…
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Randomized MAC addresses: iPhone and Androids do this by default now on every Wifi. Never will you be noticed as the same MAC coming back to your coffee shop.
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Secure DNS – most browsers have actually been so good about this that pages with certain safe, but non-secure content, can be triggered as hard to warn you not to go to that page as a page with no SSL, and worse.
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People don’t know about this stuff that much, they have 0 idea, they care but only in theory, because they will never do anything about it, so…
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Google and Apple, and PC makers, etc., who ever get bad press from this now make a point to help these things exist by default against malicious people.
VPNs can protect against all these entities to various degrees. While nothing in technology is absolutely foolproof, VPNs are far from defeated. Every serious enterprise requires them, and many countries actively ban them to maintain surveillance and control the flow of information to their citizens.
ISPs cannot see your traffic; they can only detect that you are using a VPN.
Tech companies can try to track you through cookies and fingerprinting, but companies like Apple provide tools and other mechanisms to minimize the effectiveness of these techniques. It’s a constant cat-and-mouse game. If you use a browser like Google Chrome, however, you should be aware that it tracks significant amounts of data, so choosing the right browser is crucial for your privacy needs.
Governments can apply legal pressure to VPN providers within their jurisdiction, but many VPN providers publicly state they don’t keep logs, and this has been tested in several legal cases.
VPNs are just one resource in a privacy toolbox; you still need to be smart about your online activities; such as not selling your soul to Google Chrome. They are affordable and easy to implement. I’ve been using one for years, and the experience is generally seamless, except for the occasional website that blocks VPN traffic. In such cases, I either make an exception or move on to other sites.
Thanks for your input on the effectiveness of VPN. On the other hand I don’t agree that privacy = illegal activity. Privacy should be the default, the expectation. Our privacy has been stripped away and that has been normalized.
Agreed with the marketing hype of VPNs and Antivirus software. However, I don’t think that related to you assertion that these are the only practical purposes for VPN.
I took a quick glance at your other posts and comments and understand you have a good understanding of cybersecurity. My background is in data engineering. I’ve been doing this long enough that I can be picky about who I work for. I don’t work for advertising companies or others that monetize people’s data collection. Having seen how poor our privacy laws are and how often companies lose other people’s sensitive data, I can say there are plenty of reasons for VPNs.
Who might be collecting/monetizing your data?
- Your ISP, through sites visited and DNS requests
- Bad actors at Internet cafe (see recent Network Chuck video)
- WiFi Hosts (Cafes, AirB&B hosts, hotels, etc.)
- Spouses or others in domestic situations that need protection from someone dangerous in their home. Look at everything Firewalla logs as an example of what people COULD be checking on someone in the house
Personally, I like to shift my location to countries with better privacy policies in the hopes that websites won’t try to monetize/track me for advertising. It’s no guarantee, but having my address shared with 10,000 others will certainly make their lives harder.
Everything I’ve read about using VPN for the purposes you described suggests it’s not bulletproof and it’s pretty unwise to doing something illegal with the assumption nobody can track you.