I’ve often heard this, and I guess I’m asking is it true? If so why?
Is it because it puts you in a smaller pool of users, as there are going to be very few connections to TOR from X VPN?
shouldn’t use TOR over a VPN?
It’s false. If using a normal OS, use a VPN to protect normal traffic. And if you want to use Tor Browser, do Tor Browser over VPN (leave VPN running as usual, then later launch Tor Browser).
In “Tor Browser over VPN” configuration, VPN doesn’t help or hurt Tor Browser, and VPN helps protect all of the non-Tor-Browser traffic (from services, cron jobs, other apps) coming out of your system while you’re using Tor Browser (and after you stop using Tor Browser). Using a VPN and letting the VPN company see some info is better than letting your ISP see the same info, because the ISP knows more about you. So leave the VPN running 24/365, even while you’re using Tor Browser. [PS: I’m talking about running TB in a normal OS; Tails or another all-traffic-goes-over-Tor setup is a different situation.]
That said, neither VPN nor Tor/onion are magic silver bullets that make you safe and anonymous. VPN mainly protects your traffic from other devices on same LAN, from router, and from ISP. Also hides originating IP address from destination web sites. Tor/onion does same, but only for Tor browser traffic; also adds more hops to make it harder to trace back from the destination server to your original IP address, and also mostly forces you into using good browser settings. Both VPN and Tor/onion really protect only the data in motion; if the data content reveals your private info, the destination server gets your private info.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but if you ran VPN → TOR, then that’s fine. But if you accidentally run TOR → VPN, that will defeat the purpose as the first hop back to you is you VPN providers, which can identify you. The reason it’s not recommended is because if you don’t know what you’re doing, you could accidentally configure it the second way, and even if you were to configure it the first way, it doesn’t really add much more protection if an authority is already going through the trouble of tracking you. You’re better off just blending in with other TOR traffic to maximize you anonymity.
Alright, so imagine you’re throwing a huge party, but you don’t want random people crashing it. TOR is like setting up a super secret entrance so only those in the know can get in. But, it’s not just for fun, it’s about privacy. When you use TOR, it’s like bouncing your data around a bunch of different places so no one can trace where it started.
Think of it as an extra layer on top of your VPN to make sure your info is extra safe. Personally, I’d recommend NordVPN with TOR for that added peace of mind, NordVPN has been the best for me when it comes to security and speed.
There seems to be worry about somehow ending up using a VPN tunnel inside a Tor tunnel, but someone who actually manages to achieve that is probably safer in jail than walking around and crossing roads
When using TOR, a clever network operator MAY see that you are on TOR since it can detect connections to known TOR nodes. Proper use of bridges can help reduce this since the assumption is that the network operator may not have all the bridges in their blacklist like they do for TOR nodes.
VPN is just another network operator. So if the VPN operator is more privacy focused than your WIFI network operator, VPN is a plus. If your VPN operator is less privacy focused than your WIFI network operator then it’s not a plus. Really depends on your VPN
One HUGE downfall of VPNs is they usually have a user-id / password that you use to gain access. So this can clearly pin you down as a person of interest online at a certain time.
By contrast, using some random gas station WIFI to connect to TOR will be much harder for someone to associate with YOU. All they will know is “some guy TORed here”. Without a CCTV camera showing you on your phone / laptop, there is no proof that you were even there.
VPNs, if they choose to, can always prove that you were on network at a given point in time.
So anything that links to your real person, is less private than something that just links to “some guy”
For anybody saying it’s easy to misconfigure Tor to use Tor → VPN, this is only if you specifically use a browser plugin inside the Tor browser to connect to the VPN service or use advanced configuration with the tor service (not the browser). By default it doesn’t matter if you “first open the Tor browser then connect to VPN” or “first connect to VPN and then open the Tor browser” as even if the first one is done, it will still be configured the way of VPN → Tor and not Tor → VPN.
This is not a stance on if you should use Tor with VPN or not but just to explain that it’s actually not that easy to misconfigure it the way many people said in this comment section.
If you activate your VPN first, and you are using a VPN provider which doesnt log, then you can use TOR just fine with a bit of extra security.
But if you are using a VPN that logs your activity, or start the VPN after starting TOR then you are potentially compromising your anonymity if you set things up wrong.
EDIT: Not sure why people are downvoting. What I’ve said is pretty much the same as most other people in the thread.
A while back I wrote an ELI5 article on combing Tor with VPNs, with diagrams.
I use NordVPN.
Onion over VPN is one when I go to tor.
Should I also get the tor VPN ?
Malicious exit nodes can log. VPN logs can confirm TOR usage and help deanonymize.
Yes. Along with the other hundreds of idiots who can’t search the past 10 years worth of answers to that already. Nobody says YOU shouldn’t use it. Someone SHOULD use it. Someone shouldn’t.
Tor over VPN or VPN over Tor can benefit a user in certain situstions/scenario’s. It can also lessen privacy in others.
If you don’t know how these methods work along with how to setup correctly, don’t do it.
They are mainly useful in situations where censhorship is a big concern/issue.
Otherwise, just using such methods for more privacy is not a good strategy.
How & Why…
So, summing up the detractor arguments I see here: If you use a malicious or botched VPN, bad. If you don’t know what you’re doing and still manage to set it up in a much more complicated and rare way, bad.
Nothing that really goes against tor over vpn. But the worst thing is that in both cases, even at the same time, you are much better off with tor than without it! The only bad thing would be an unfounded level of trust.
Everyone made dw’s defination so scary that people think they’ll definately get hacked if they ever visit dw.
You could do what a lot of people do when using Tor nowadays. Instead of using a VPN and Tor on the same computer, use VPNs on your personal device only.
Get another computer with no personal information or anything that can be connected to your identity and use Tor on that.
That’s what I do. What a lot of people who I know use Tor do. And in terms of VPN, Virtual Private Networks are not recommended for use either way.
I mean if you must use a VPN, then go for it, but it doesn’t actually make you immune to surveillance especially if you’re using a mainstream VPN like Hotspot Sheild. If you must use a VPN, opt for Proton VPN instead.
Here’s a guide for privacy tools that you could use. Even on this website, VPNs in general are NOT recommended.
Can I get an idiot’s explanation
Is it just me, or is that a peculiar way of asking for help?
I’m using tor + v2rayng on Android 13. Speed is fast.
So if Tor isn’t really as protective how are we not busting all these dark web criminals one by one? I don’t know much about the dark web but from what I can read it seems that it is so safe for criminals that not even the FBI or the best hackers can trace any information. But if Tor isn’t as safe couldn’t authorities easily trace back traffic to a client?